I think going out of one's comfort zone is extremely good for anyone, I was forced by law to do that to an extent and while at first I disliked it, I really value it now.
So I live in Brazil, and conscription is a thing here for around 1/5 of the population, and turns out I was a really good candidate for that, so they called me, at first I got really mad that they destroyed my plans, that I would have to do a lot of stuff I consider stupid, etc, anyway, after a few months in, I actually really... value the experience.
It not only made me able to value some basic things, like the simple fact I have a home, where one can be comfortable, sleep well, have personal space, have their own things in a safe place, not feel pain, eat good food (one you can choose!), wake up at a time you choose, and of course the fact that daily you are not just following orders under threat of going to prison and such, it really made me value that.
There are of course things I hate and things I did not even know I'd hate so much, this is mostly about people specifically, and some of their beliefs and such, not to get into detail, but at least I am aware of it? also how the world works to an extent, but it made me value the fact I was not close to this to the point I did not even know it.
It also made me realize there are things from it that I really like and will turn into hobbies, I'm not saying you should do something this wild, but why be in your comfort zone to the point of socializing online? why not do it in real life? of course there is still COVID out there, but masks and vaccines are already a thing, I personally think you should break your comfort zone to the point of talking to people in real life! people in the internet are going to be too similar to you and will probably be in similar situations, is that really going out of the comfort zone at all? also I'd say the internet has way too many trolls and people who just want to make people like you feel worse, in real life that is actually rather rare in my experience, you don't need to say you've never had a job or whatever, or that you are in your 30s, maybe just mention one of the issues you think you have to one person, I think this personally works more with older people, and it is not like you need to go it is not like you are going to go deep with internet people anyway, I've tried that and it never works out.
Anyway, the big thing about going out of the comfort zone is that, you realize it is not that big of an issue, and life gets sort of oddly comforting, even when you are in a bad situation, and that turns out a lot of people are in a situation worse than yours, and I at least really value that, anyway, this is just a suggestion.
2
Tobias 1102~3Y
I always dreaded conscription returning to the UK, but I can also understand how being forced into a situation like that, and having to adapt, would lead to a lot of valuable growth, so I'm glad it worked out that way for you! I know a lot of my issues linger due to people enabling me, but I also don't exactly want that to change...
Talk to people in the real world, you say? Sure, I'll just go to the Friend House where a lot of compatible people are just sitting around waiting for me to push through my mental issues and show up. Or I wish that's how reality worked!
I spent a few years going to many 'groups and clubs' - what people always suggest - which was completely fruitless, and not (entirely) due to my anxiety. They were full of old people, who I could talk to, but we had nothing to talk about because they all had spouses and children - or grandchildren - and couldn't understand my anxiety or game dev work at all. We had nothing in common.
The only time I've had success is when I went to university when I was 27 - also an attempt to 'get out there' - and finally found some friends, but that led to heartbreak, and finding out I had brain cancer, then as I was recovering from the surgery for that, COVID happened. I'm still in touch with a couple of those friends. One of them was the person I was going to move in with, before that fell apart.
At this point, I've largely accepted my lot in life - I don't mind just spending my life in front of a computer making stuff - but I'd also like to find some kindred spirits who have similar mental issues and lifestyles who I can occasionally text. The internet is really the only way to do that.
The only girlfriend I've ever had started as an online friendship (not from a dating site), so it sounds like my experiences have been different to yours regarding online connections.
1
phsc57~3Y
Well, you need to look for people who like the same things as you! I had an uncle (who died a few months ago) who was also a very lonely dude, he was a programmer and died in his 50s, he did end up with a wife and a daughter but later had a divorce and he had issues with depression, anxiety and diabetes his entire life, but he did have friends! He did that because he had hobbies and he looked out for groups related to such hobbies, he liked Magic: The Gathering, World of Warcraft, RPG games in general and fishing/camping, he went to Magic: The Gathering groups, World of Warcraft he did not have physical friends, he went to like game stores and such (I mean it was in the past so that was easier, now people buy games online) and fishing/camping should be fairly obvious, there are a lot of people interested in that and he did meet people in stores, conventions or whatever? that one I am not so sure.
Anyway, that is an example, I can speak for myself more! I am pretty happy with my current friend groups, my oldest friends are online ones, I met them in a flash game, back when I was 10, the game was online (and not that popular) and I did not speak english very well, and these people were in a similar situation! of course I did not befriend everybody, and as time passed some grew and changed and went their own ways, but I also met people because of them! online of course, to this day I will talk to like 3 of these people frequently, and some of them went on to do other things with me that made them able to meet more people as well, out of all these people I've met in the game (more originally) I made one additional friend I still talk to this day frequently.
This is a very important thing! if you make one friend, that one friend probably has friends, who might also like you! this is how I met a lot of people.
I kept playing the flash game for a while, like sort of until flash died (the game also went to Steam like you did with MARDEK), but my friends stopped playing it, but my english got better and I met more people! I made a project in the game and such that was a failure but doing that I made a lot of friends, I made a Discord server for the project that with time changed into simply a community, and these are some of the people I talk the most to! some got in over the years but most are from the original idea, like 10-15, of course some are closer and some are not as close, but it is a very nice place! not counting on people I invited to such server from other communities.
What about real life friends? most of my current real-life friends are from high-school, I did high-school with a technician's degree course, it was a programming course, and in that course I met, well, one person out of the like 40 who is my friend to this day, but there was also an electronics class, and I ended up meeting people from such class, and there I made my best friend and met a few others, in my last high-school year I also made a friend (who was romantically interested in me) from the chemistry course, anyway there was a girl I used to sort of talk to and she had an online boyfriend, he is a really nice dude and I invited him to a Discord server of mine and we also talk to daily, also these out of these friends, a few also are in that server I made from the flash game, because they speak english pretty well.
Anyway, a while ago I made more friends out of a MARDEK Discord server I joined, and some also joined that other flash-game server.
And last but not least, I play a game called DOTA 2 a lot, and in that game I made friends in a very weird way that you are probably not interested in, but it basically made a small community where people actually knew each other in, and I recommended DOTA to other friends of mine, real ones or internet ones, and this is the main activity that keeps us close and also what has made me make most friends in the last few years... that and another really small community I made friends in but I left it and I don't talk to people from it but I could've kept contact but it is really weird so...
A lot of text to say something simple, a few things I learned with time:
1 - You need to maintain friends, they will not like you for no reason, talk to them! and even if you do that, and do activities with them, people change and you need to accept that and keep that in mind! that happened with your university friends, and it also happened with people I've met online and mostly in real life, I have friends I made in the army and I am pretty sure next year I won't be talking to them, because of how the situation forces that, same with high-school or previous education, but also friends I've made later.
2 - Hobbies and interests! I made friends because I like video games (the flash game, MARDEK, DOTA), because I like programming and that other community that had a topic but still it is really weird, all related to my interests!
So, if tomorrow all my friends went away, how would I make friends? DOTA is a slow and hard way to make friends, but I think that could happen, and well, I'd find a job and probably maybe befriend people there (legally I can't right now!) and do courses related to things I like, also maybe find groups related to things I like, maybe some DOTA related event or whatever (DOTA is not very popular in Brazil but that does exist!).
But if that did not work out, I'd try to get into some new activity, one I plan on getting into but it is legally complicated is firearms and target shooting, and I am pretty sure I will make a few friends out of it.
So here is the thing Tobias, what do you like other than indie game developement? don't focus on your issues, very few people want to talk about issues and problems, try to have a good time and sort of forget about the issues maybe?
Anyway, you want online friends? in my experience only small groups works, your website is one! I did not make friends here, but I am pretty sure you did? it is small to the point you might be able to individually remember people, but big to the point you actually get to meet some new people! but I've been using Reddit for years and I've not made a single friend there, even in niche subs I'm active in.
Also important detail, social interaction is not the same as making friends! when I said older people I'm mostly talking about people I will talk to once or twice and not build a connection, but maybe learn something or just like pass time, random people on the street works for that! I misunderstood your goals, you want friends who you will talk for years, not just people to have social interaction with, my bad.
0
Tobias 1102~3Y
Ohhh, I'd been going to groups for things like hula hooping, crab fishing, and bear baiting - all of which I hate - and I was extremely confused about why I wasn't making friends at them!!
...By which I mean I did go to gatherings that were based around my interests. I know I was going on about my insecurities and general misery in this post, but you needn't patronise me. I mean I've existed for 33 years and I have a Psychology degree, so I'd like to think I'm not completely clueless about how people tick.
The problem though is that even though I make indie games, I don't actually have much interest in talking about or playing games with other people. I had a bunch of friends in school who mostly talked about games (and porn; they were teenage guys), and I got essentially nothing out of it. When they contacted me on weekends to spend time together, I'd always much rather just spend time alone, making stuff.
I used to be fairly active on an art site where other people who like making stuff congregated (deviantART), and I made a few friends there, including one who became my girlfriend. After she and I broke up, I continued to use it, but lightning didn't strike in the same place twice.
The most fulfilling connections I've had with people involved talking about our similar mental issues, which some people do want to do. I know I do, as do a lot of people who struggle with them every day, and the Psychology course was full of such people. Even on Fig Hunter, I was more interested in talking with people about their ~personality types~ and such than about my own games that they'd played.
The groups I went to before uni all revolved around that kind of thing in some way - anxiety groups, mindfulness meditation groups, etc - or creative things like art, but I live in a sleepy seaside village 'where old people go to die', not a highly populated city, so that's why most of the other members were old. Just unlucky circumstance.
As I said in the post, I'll be trying first to post in Reddit communities about social anxiety and indie games dev.
You're lucky to have found connections fairly easily wherever you've gone, though I suppose that's true for most people too. If you didn't check the link in the post to the r/socialanxiety subreddit, it might be worth skimming the latest thread titles to get an idea of the kinds of thoughts that make things that might be easy for you more difficult for me.
0
phsc57~3Y
People don't use Reddit to make friends, people use Reddit to talk about their interests in a sort of anonymous way, the closest "social media" (or antisocial media as some call it) is 4chan after all, people are not there to make friends they just want to talk about something or see posts related to something, and even then, game dev is a topic one can talk about but it is very pragmatical, for one to truly make friends and have actual conversations it has to involve something rather specific, I think the only way you could truly make deeper connections with game developement would be developing a game with other people, which I would imagine is not something you would want to do.
And after using a subreddit about discussions for a topic like that for too long, you will realize basically all conversation topics keep repeating and it is rather boring, happens with everything that is not constantly updated by some external factor, not to mention actual reposts for karma or whatever.
And well, how are you going to overcome your anxiety other than... getting out of your comfort zone and talking to people? but then, you think using Reddit is going out of your comfort zone, so I don't really know.
Also you did not understand what I meant, people have their tastes, you surely do something other than gamedev and anxiety, did you ever try out things that when imagining you might not like? turns out that sometimes people actually like things they at first believed they would not like.
0
Astreon152~3Y
Hula Hooping, you definitely need to try a hula hooping group again.
It's true they form quite a tight circle but once they let you enter the loop you don't regret it.
On the contrary i'd avise to not give crab fishing groups another try: there are too many emotional undercurrents involved and it'll leave you with a pinch in the heart.
So I live in Brazil, and conscription is a thing here for around 1/5 of the population, and turns out I was a really good candidate for that, so they called me, at first I got really mad that they destroyed my plans, that I would have to do a lot of stuff I consider stupid, etc, anyway, after a few months in, I actually really... value the experience.
It not only made me able to value some basic things, like the simple fact I have a home, where one can be comfortable, sleep well, have personal space, have their own things in a safe place, not feel pain, eat good food (one you can choose!), wake up at a time you choose, and of course the fact that daily you are not just following orders under threat of going to prison and such, it really made me value that.
There are of course things I hate and things I did not even know I'd hate so much, this is mostly about people specifically, and some of their beliefs and such, not to get into detail, but at least I am aware of it? also how the world works to an extent, but it made me value the fact I was not close to this to the point I did not even know it.
It also made me realize there are things from it that I really like and will turn into hobbies, I'm not saying you should do something this wild, but why be in your comfort zone to the point of socializing online? why not do it in real life? of course there is still COVID out there, but masks and vaccines are already a thing, I personally think you should break your comfort zone to the point of talking to people in real life! people in the internet are going to be too similar to you and will probably be in similar situations, is that really going out of the comfort zone at all? also I'd say the internet has way too many trolls and people who just want to make people like you feel worse, in real life that is actually rather rare in my experience, you don't need to say you've never had a job or whatever, or that you are in your 30s, maybe just mention one of the issues you think you have to one person, I think this personally works more with older people, and it is not like you need to go it is not like you are going to go deep with internet people anyway, I've tried that and it never works out.
Anyway, the big thing about going out of the comfort zone is that, you realize it is not that big of an issue, and life gets sort of oddly comforting, even when you are in a bad situation, and that turns out a lot of people are in a situation worse than yours, and I at least really value that, anyway, this is just a suggestion.
Talk to people in the real world, you say? Sure, I'll just go to the Friend House where a lot of compatible people are just sitting around waiting for me to push through my mental issues and show up. Or I wish that's how reality worked!
I spent a few years going to many 'groups and clubs' - what people always suggest - which was completely fruitless, and not (entirely) due to my anxiety. They were full of old people, who I could talk to, but we had nothing to talk about because they all had spouses and children - or grandchildren - and couldn't understand my anxiety or game dev work at all. We had nothing in common.
The only time I've had success is when I went to university when I was 27 - also an attempt to 'get out there' - and finally found some friends, but that led to heartbreak, and finding out I had brain cancer, then as I was recovering from the surgery for that, COVID happened. I'm still in touch with a couple of those friends. One of them was the person I was going to move in with, before that fell apart.
At this point, I've largely accepted my lot in life - I don't mind just spending my life in front of a computer making stuff - but I'd also like to find some kindred spirits who have similar mental issues and lifestyles who I can occasionally text. The internet is really the only way to do that.
The only girlfriend I've ever had started as an online friendship (not from a dating site), so it sounds like my experiences have been different to yours regarding online connections.
Anyway, that is an example, I can speak for myself more! I am pretty happy with my current friend groups, my oldest friends are online ones, I met them in a flash game, back when I was 10, the game was online (and not that popular) and I did not speak english very well, and these people were in a similar situation! of course I did not befriend everybody, and as time passed some grew and changed and went their own ways, but I also met people because of them! online of course, to this day I will talk to like 3 of these people frequently, and some of them went on to do other things with me that made them able to meet more people as well, out of all these people I've met in the game (more originally) I made one additional friend I still talk to this day frequently.
This is a very important thing! if you make one friend, that one friend probably has friends, who might also like you! this is how I met a lot of people.
I kept playing the flash game for a while, like sort of until flash died (the game also went to Steam like you did with MARDEK), but my friends stopped playing it, but my english got better and I met more people! I made a project in the game and such that was a failure but doing that I made a lot of friends, I made a Discord server for the project that with time changed into simply a community, and these are some of the people I talk the most to! some got in over the years but most are from the original idea, like 10-15, of course some are closer and some are not as close, but it is a very nice place! not counting on people I invited to such server from other communities.
What about real life friends? most of my current real-life friends are from high-school, I did high-school with a technician's degree course, it was a programming course, and in that course I met, well, one person out of the like 40 who is my friend to this day, but there was also an electronics class, and I ended up meeting people from such class, and there I made my best friend and met a few others, in my last high-school year I also made a friend (who was romantically interested in me) from the chemistry course, anyway there was a girl I used to sort of talk to and she had an online boyfriend, he is a really nice dude and I invited him to a Discord server of mine and we also talk to daily, also these out of these friends, a few also are in that server I made from the flash game, because they speak english pretty well.
Anyway, a while ago I made more friends out of a MARDEK Discord server I joined, and some also joined that other flash-game server.
And last but not least, I play a game called DOTA 2 a lot, and in that game I made friends in a very weird way that you are probably not interested in, but it basically made a small community where people actually knew each other in, and I recommended DOTA to other friends of mine, real ones or internet ones, and this is the main activity that keeps us close and also what has made me make most friends in the last few years... that and another really small community I made friends in but I left it and I don't talk to people from it but I could've kept contact but it is really weird so...
A lot of text to say something simple, a few things I learned with time:
1 - You need to maintain friends, they will not like you for no reason, talk to them! and even if you do that, and do activities with them, people change and you need to accept that and keep that in mind! that happened with your university friends, and it also happened with people I've met online and mostly in real life, I have friends I made in the army and I am pretty sure next year I won't be talking to them, because of how the situation forces that, same with high-school or previous education, but also friends I've made later.
2 - Hobbies and interests! I made friends because I like video games (the flash game, MARDEK, DOTA), because I like programming and that other community that had a topic but still it is really weird, all related to my interests!
So, if tomorrow all my friends went away, how would I make friends? DOTA is a slow and hard way to make friends, but I think that could happen, and well, I'd find a job and probably maybe befriend people there (legally I can't right now!) and do courses related to things I like, also maybe find groups related to things I like, maybe some DOTA related event or whatever (DOTA is not very popular in Brazil but that does exist!).
But if that did not work out, I'd try to get into some new activity, one I plan on getting into but it is legally complicated is firearms and target shooting, and I am pretty sure I will make a few friends out of it.
So here is the thing Tobias, what do you like other than indie game developement? don't focus on your issues, very few people want to talk about issues and problems, try to have a good time and sort of forget about the issues maybe?
Anyway, you want online friends? in my experience only small groups works, your website is one! I did not make friends here, but I am pretty sure you did? it is small to the point you might be able to individually remember people, but big to the point you actually get to meet some new people! but I've been using Reddit for years and I've not made a single friend there, even in niche subs I'm active in.
Also important detail, social interaction is not the same as making friends! when I said older people I'm mostly talking about people I will talk to once or twice and not build a connection, but maybe learn something or just like pass time, random people on the street works for that! I misunderstood your goals, you want friends who you will talk for years, not just people to have social interaction with, my bad.
...By which I mean I did go to gatherings that were based around my interests. I know I was going on about my insecurities and general misery in this post, but you needn't patronise me. I mean I've existed for 33 years and I have a Psychology degree, so I'd like to think I'm not completely clueless about how people tick.
The problem though is that even though I make indie games, I don't actually have much interest in talking about or playing games with other people. I had a bunch of friends in school who mostly talked about games (and porn; they were teenage guys), and I got essentially nothing out of it. When they contacted me on weekends to spend time together, I'd always much rather just spend time alone, making stuff.
I used to be fairly active on an art site where other people who like making stuff congregated (deviantART), and I made a few friends there, including one who became my girlfriend. After she and I broke up, I continued to use it, but lightning didn't strike in the same place twice.
The most fulfilling connections I've had with people involved talking about our similar mental issues, which some people do want to do. I know I do, as do a lot of people who struggle with them every day, and the Psychology course was full of such people. Even on Fig Hunter, I was more interested in talking with people about their ~personality types~ and such than about my own games that they'd played.
The groups I went to before uni all revolved around that kind of thing in some way - anxiety groups, mindfulness meditation groups, etc - or creative things like art, but I live in a sleepy seaside village 'where old people go to die', not a highly populated city, so that's why most of the other members were old. Just unlucky circumstance.
As I said in the post, I'll be trying first to post in Reddit communities about social anxiety and indie games dev.
You're lucky to have found connections fairly easily wherever you've gone, though I suppose that's true for most people too. If you didn't check the link in the post to the r/socialanxiety subreddit, it might be worth skimming the latest thread titles to get an idea of the kinds of thoughts that make things that might be easy for you more difficult for me.
And after using a subreddit about discussions for a topic like that for too long, you will realize basically all conversation topics keep repeating and it is rather boring, happens with everything that is not constantly updated by some external factor, not to mention actual reposts for karma or whatever.
And well, how are you going to overcome your anxiety other than... getting out of your comfort zone and talking to people? but then, you think using Reddit is going out of your comfort zone, so I don't really know.
Also you did not understand what I meant, people have their tastes, you surely do something other than gamedev and anxiety, did you ever try out things that when imagining you might not like? turns out that sometimes people actually like things they at first believed they would not like.
It's true they form quite a tight circle but once they let you enter the loop you don't regret it.
On the contrary i'd avise to not give crab fishing groups another try: there are too many emotional undercurrents involved and it'll leave you with a pinch in the heart.