I've been following your blogs about the idea so far, even from way back when you made the first Belief demo, so the concepts are already quite familiar with me!
I think the side swapping thing will always be the biggest appeal of this type of game, it's really unique, I can't think of any other sort of game where that happens, except as like a one-off boss gimmick.
There's definitely still some things missing, like the effectiveness predictor. The previous Belief video also had character animate depending on how effective skills were, which I thought was nice.
I do think the little dialogue quips get repetitive fast, there need to be more variants and they shouldn't play every single time, that sort of thing is a common complaint people have. [LINK]
The biggest difference is definitely that battles now take a 2v2 form, rather than the old style, and that there's a permanent party system. The old system had battles that felt more dynamic, fraught and overwhelming, whereas the new one is more structured and ordered.
I think the old system actually fits the concept of the game better, social interactions are a very chaotic thing, after all. I also felt like the second fight definitely dragged near the end, as it goes from a 4v6 to a 2v10, but rather than feeling like the odds are stacked against you and you're on the verge of losing, it just feels like there's more busywork to finish before the battle's over. It never really feels like you're accomplishing anything, which is what the whole side changing system should be doing.
The permanent party system also means you'll presumably start most battles with a full party, rather than whatever the battle parameters would be. That does streamline how much you can do, like battles where it's 1 versus a crowd, or you start with some NPCs already on your side. It also means every enemy needs to be balanced for player use!
The gameplay elements otherwise are definitely an evolution from the older Belief system, you've learned from Atonal Dreams and it shows in the UI and such.
I think Belief Battles is fine as a name, it's descriptive, compelling and suitably silly. It's more eyecatching than "Frayth". Frayth to me sounds like the name of some high-minded abstract indie game about religious trauma or somesuch.
It'd be nice to get out a quick game, to keep the scale and scope small. Maybe if it does well you can make an official editor, too.
I could share it with some non-FH related circles and see what feedback they give, what do you think?
2
Tobias 1104~1Y
I was wondering if, were I to actually get around to posting about this on Reddit, I'd get comments like "it looks the same as [other game I've never heard of that did it better]" with the side-swapping, so if it's more unique then... well, I wonder. I like that and hope people would accept it, but I also learned from Memody: Sindrel Song that people prefer more familiar things. Maybe this is familiar enough though.
I want to have characters nod or shake their heads when 'hit', or more - I find the idea of them recoiling as if physically struck funny - though that's one of many things I still need to add.
I'm unsure whether to add an effectiveness predictor again though. Maybe it'd just make things seem annoyingly more complicated than they are? Something I'll need to wait for feedback to decide.
I get how repetitive voiced lines can get annoying in fast-paced action games, but I wonder whether it'd feel any different with text lines (of which characters would have several per skill they could use). I also wonder whether allowing the player to edit their own might affect anything. We'll see.
Having played around with both this and the old Belief system (and Atonal Dreams) for ages, I definitely prefer the 2v2 with backups over full parties acting! Though it's also hard to gauge how anything will feel to play in the long term from so short of a demo. Makes me wonder how much testing of any battle system games go through before deciding it's fine and worth building the rest of the game around...
Interesting that you'd describe the swapping back and forth as 'busywork'. I get what you mean there, though it makes me wonder how much of gameplay in games in general could be dismissed as that depending on your perspective. A big part of that might be due to watching the video rather than playing it though. Personally I felt the swapping back and forth was fairly tense while testing, but I can't even pay attention to the video.
I've thought about what it'd mean to be starting battles with a full party. Makes me think of how different Pokemon is before you build a full team, though. I suppose it's yet another thing that'll need to be figured out over time.
I'm still unsure about the title. 'Frayth' is growing on me, but... unsure.
It'd probably be a good idea to get some strangers' thoughts eventually... though I want to get some more stuff ready before that and posting to Reddit etc.
I've been following your blogs about the idea so far, even from way back when you made the first Belief demo, so the concepts are already quite familiar with me!
I think the side swapping thing will always be the biggest appeal of this type of game, it's really unique, I can't think of any other sort of game where that happens, except as like a one-off boss gimmick.
There's definitely still some things missing, like the effectiveness predictor. The previous Belief video also had character animate depending on how effective skills were, which I thought was nice.
I do think the little dialogue quips get repetitive fast, there need to be more variants and they shouldn't play every single time, that sort of thing is a common complaint people have. [LINK]
The biggest difference is definitely that battles now take a 2v2 form, rather than the old style, and that there's a permanent party system. The old system had battles that felt more dynamic, fraught and overwhelming, whereas the new one is more structured and ordered.
I think the old system actually fits the concept of the game better, social interactions are a very chaotic thing, after all. I also felt like the second fight definitely dragged near the end, as it goes from a 4v6 to a 2v10, but rather than feeling like the odds are stacked against you and you're on the verge of losing, it just feels like there's more busywork to finish before the battle's over. It never really feels like you're accomplishing anything, which is what the whole side changing system should be doing.
The permanent party system also means you'll presumably start most battles with a full party, rather than whatever the battle parameters would be. That does streamline how much you can do, like battles where it's 1 versus a crowd, or you start with some NPCs already on your side. It also means every enemy needs to be balanced for player use!
The gameplay elements otherwise are definitely an evolution from the older Belief system, you've learned from Atonal Dreams and it shows in the UI and such.
I think Belief Battles is fine as a name, it's descriptive, compelling and suitably silly. It's more eyecatching than "Frayth". Frayth to me sounds like the name of some high-minded abstract indie game about religious trauma or somesuch.
It'd be nice to get out a quick game, to keep the scale and scope small. Maybe if it does well you can make an official editor, too.
I could share it with some non-FH related circles and see what feedback they give, what do you think?
I want to have characters nod or shake their heads when 'hit', or more - I find the idea of them recoiling as if physically struck funny - though that's one of many things I still need to add.
I'm unsure whether to add an effectiveness predictor again though. Maybe it'd just make things seem annoyingly more complicated than they are? Something I'll need to wait for feedback to decide.
I get how repetitive voiced lines can get annoying in fast-paced action games, but I wonder whether it'd feel any different with text lines (of which characters would have several per skill they could use). I also wonder whether allowing the player to edit their own might affect anything. We'll see.
Having played around with both this and the old Belief system (and Atonal Dreams) for ages, I definitely prefer the 2v2 with backups over full parties acting! Though it's also hard to gauge how anything will feel to play in the long term from so short of a demo. Makes me wonder how much testing of any battle system games go through before deciding it's fine and worth building the rest of the game around...
Interesting that you'd describe the swapping back and forth as 'busywork'. I get what you mean there, though it makes me wonder how much of gameplay in games in general could be dismissed as that depending on your perspective. A big part of that might be due to watching the video rather than playing it though. Personally I felt the swapping back and forth was fairly tense while testing, but I can't even pay attention to the video.
I've thought about what it'd mean to be starting battles with a full party. Makes me think of how different Pokemon is before you build a full team, though. I suppose it's yet another thing that'll need to be figured out over time.
I'm still unsure about the title. 'Frayth' is growing on me, but... unsure.
It'd probably be a good idea to get some strangers' thoughts eventually... though I want to get some more stuff ready before that and posting to Reddit etc.