Apparently comments get marked as read if anyone replies to them, so this didn't appear in my inbox before.
You might want to have a look at the comments by AdmiralLara and my responses, since I addressed some things there.
I can't remember, but were you the one who expressed criticisms about Taming Dreams' dialogue when I posted the longplay a while back? The complaint about Enki's wearying motto seems familiar. I actually agree with you there, and I've been trying to make the point that I'm aiming to try to capture the tone of MARDEK rather than the tone of Taming Dreams with this. That is, I'm aiming for a blend of silliness with fantasy allure rather than pretentious spiritual themes. Or at least no more pretentious than something like, say, Final Fantasy. Probably.
I saw a documentary about Tolkein way back in school, and something in it stuck with me. He said that while he loved coming up with his own languages - he was a linguist, first and foremost, and he made his world so his languages had somewhere to exist - he used them sensibly and sparingly. There might be a forest called Lórien in the Elven Lands, but the down-to-earth Hobbits wouldn't use names like that for their local landmarks. They'd use names like "Old Forest" or "Weather Hills" or "The Shire" instead. Names like that make it clear that somebody named them once, for the practical purpose of meaningfully referring to a local location for communication with others.
A lot of fantasy names just use airy-sounding Fantasy Names that evoke a certain feeling, but who would have actually called them that, and why? "Alas, we must venture from Dha'ragasta'va'ria to Allawendrest post-haste, my fellows!" If they're words from a local language, sure, that works great! But most people don't put the effort in that Tolkien did, to make them actually meaningfully in a fantastical language; they just make up sounds that 'seem like' they could be in a fantasy language, but lack any meaningful history for why people would ever use those words for their intended meanings. "Lórien", if you were speaking Elven, would just mean "Dream Land". It's not as if the elves were coming up with a fancy word; in their language, the name is relatively mundane.
Tamriel names are a good example actually. The Morrowind place names use the language of the locals, and I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the creators had at least some vague idea of how that language sounds, if not to the extent Tolkien planned his. But in the provinces where "English" is the native tongue, instead you get names like "The Orange Road", "The Great Forest", "Blackwood", "Whiterun", "Solitude", "Imperial City", etc.
In the world I'm making, English is their language since it's the only one I know. Historical figures would have named each of the places based on the connotations they felt it had, in the language that they used. So we get names like Slumberwood, Dreamcave, Lifewood, etc.
I'd say that Gemsand is better than Goznor for a couple of reasons. One is that I can imagine a historical figure saying "I'd love to live in that place where the sand sparkles like gemstones", which would eventually be compressed into just "Gemsand", but the only real reason for it to be called Goznor would be if it were named after someone called Mr Goznor or whatever, but even then what would that name have originally meant, and in what language? Every name has some etymological origin. Another is simply because I think it evokes a beautiful mental image, of glittering, precious sand in a likely beach-based place, while Goznor could be - and was! - applied to settlements with drastically different aesthetics and feelings. In the Neverwinter Nights module, it was a built-up city, then it became a cosy little village, and the name didn't lose any meaning or effect when used for both because it never had that to lose in the first place. The name Gemsand wouldn't have made sense for either of those.
Regarding the character names, the original ones describe what they are, but the new ones describe who they are. The former are more like "Cuthbert the Knight" or "Princess Tanya", while the latter are more like "Cuthbert the Mad" or "Wise Tanya". Again, see my other comment for why I chose 'Honeyblood' specifically.
I love language, especially its potential to create complex imagery. I used the metaphor of a seed growing a tree of connotations in one of my other comments. I like playing around with layered meanings so much that I struggle to understand the resistance to it. To me, it's absolutely beautiful and enthralling.
If you think that 'Aeropolis' is an amazing name but 'Heropolis' is trite and juvenile or whatever, I'd invite you to have a look at your own mind to see why that might be. I suspect familiarity is an enormous part of it.
3
JohnnyBoi45~4Y
Thanks for taking the time to reply - I thought perhaps I'd crossed a line with that last comment (which might still be the case). I was not actually the one who had previously commented about Enki's motto. I'm glad to hear about this direction you're going for dialogue-wise. On some reflection from reading your comment and mine, I realize I've said some things that I no longer agree with, so I'd like to clear those up.
I actually completely agree with what you're saying about your method for naming places - practical meaning. I do want to note that I made no mention of places like Slumberwood, Dreamcave, Lifewood, in a negative context, but since those are all more or less from the original series, I'll add a few more from your map: Wyrmourn, Sternham, Rift, Cloud-Clad Castle. All these places sound like something someone "named" for a practical purpose, or in the case of the castle, maybe named as such by a royal trying to make his or her castle seem special. Now, due to your explanation of Gemsand, I understand it's origin and don't mind it nearly as much. These would be good tidbits for the encyclopedia section, I'd love to know why Wyrmourn, Sternham etc. are named as such.
Which I guess brings me to the places which I probably had the biggest complaints about: Lake Lacrimosa, Heropolis, and the continent/landmass names. I think this is where my initial complaint about "meaning" came from. These complaints don't come from a lack of explanation like Gemsand, as you have explained why they are named that. The thing with Lake Lacrimosa is that you've stated this world uses English (or seem to have Germanic/Old English roots like Sternham or Wyrmourn), so a sudden Latin word in the mix feels way off. "Lake Lachrymose" might be more consistent with the existing terminology, or even something as mundane as "Lake Tear."
For Heropolis... I will say I never thought or said Aeropolis was an amazing name, but it did make "sense." It's a city around the air temple - boom, Aeropolis. I can totally see someone calling it that, obvious as it is, so it checks off the "practical naming" naming box. Upon further consideration, Heropolis does this as well! It's the capital city of the courageous "Bold" race, so I imagine they may have named their city that completely on purpose. That said, I now put it on a similar ground to Aeropolis, as a sensible name in-context, but a bit cringeworthy just as a word - which is not necessarily a problem, because that can totally work in-universe! Only other thing about Heropolis is it has a random Greek root which I'll just mention for consistency with my complaint about Lacrimosa, and that it shares a name with the mobile game "Legends of Heropolis," which is about, you guessed it, heroes. I'll keep it short for the continent names - Numina has the same language inconsistency which come off strangely, and some other comments have mentioned that Godsmind and Godsbod are a bit on-the-nose, which is a sentiment I agree with. But again, could easily be justified in-universe, as long as you're doing it on purpose. The map looking like a head and body (although I think it looks like a head and a uterus and ovaries) is really quite brilliant, and someone could theoretically go "aha! A head and body, the size of a god! Let me name them as such!" Not sure how they would get the birds-eye view to find out, but hey, it's fantasy.
As for character names, at this point I've read the words "Mardek Honeyblood" enough times that I might just be getting Stockholm syndrome about it. Your explanation certainly helped, I least get *why* you want to call him that. You may have noticed I'm not mentioning the other names - I'm not sure if it's because I think they're better (Elwyen's is basically the same as her old one anyway) or I just care less because they aren't Mardek. I still think it's kind of a weird name for phonetic reasons alone, but I'll just get over it. Or not. Who knows.
I guess to sum up, I have reconsidered and your names are totally fine because names aren't all "cool" in real life anyway, so there's no reason they should all be "cool" in this world. After all, there's a town called "Burnt Corn, Alabama" and people name their kids plenty of things worse than "Honeyblood." While I know the existing world of Mardek probably far too well, you know this world you're creating better than I do, and I should probably trust you a bit more to make the right choices in regards to it.
You might want to have a look at the comments by AdmiralLara and my responses, since I addressed some things there.
I can't remember, but were you the one who expressed criticisms about Taming Dreams' dialogue when I posted the longplay a while back? The complaint about Enki's wearying motto seems familiar. I actually agree with you there, and I've been trying to make the point that I'm aiming to try to capture the tone of MARDEK rather than the tone of Taming Dreams with this. That is, I'm aiming for a blend of silliness with fantasy allure rather than pretentious spiritual themes. Or at least no more pretentious than something like, say, Final Fantasy. Probably.
I saw a documentary about Tolkein way back in school, and something in it stuck with me. He said that while he loved coming up with his own languages - he was a linguist, first and foremost, and he made his world so his languages had somewhere to exist - he used them sensibly and sparingly. There might be a forest called Lórien in the Elven Lands, but the down-to-earth Hobbits wouldn't use names like that for their local landmarks. They'd use names like "Old Forest" or "Weather Hills" or "The Shire" instead. Names like that make it clear that somebody named them once, for the practical purpose of meaningfully referring to a local location for communication with others.
A lot of fantasy names just use airy-sounding Fantasy Names that evoke a certain feeling, but who would have actually called them that, and why? "Alas, we must venture from Dha'ragasta'va'ria to Allawendrest post-haste, my fellows!" If they're words from a local language, sure, that works great! But most people don't put the effort in that Tolkien did, to make them actually meaningfully in a fantastical language; they just make up sounds that 'seem like' they could be in a fantasy language, but lack any meaningful history for why people would ever use those words for their intended meanings. "Lórien", if you were speaking Elven, would just mean "Dream Land". It's not as if the elves were coming up with a fancy word; in their language, the name is relatively mundane.
Tamriel names are a good example actually. The Morrowind place names use the language of the locals, and I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the creators had at least some vague idea of how that language sounds, if not to the extent Tolkien planned his. But in the provinces where "English" is the native tongue, instead you get names like "The Orange Road", "The Great Forest", "Blackwood", "Whiterun", "Solitude", "Imperial City", etc.
In the world I'm making, English is their language since it's the only one I know. Historical figures would have named each of the places based on the connotations they felt it had, in the language that they used. So we get names like Slumberwood, Dreamcave, Lifewood, etc.
I'd say that Gemsand is better than Goznor for a couple of reasons. One is that I can imagine a historical figure saying "I'd love to live in that place where the sand sparkles like gemstones", which would eventually be compressed into just "Gemsand", but the only real reason for it to be called Goznor would be if it were named after someone called Mr Goznor or whatever, but even then what would that name have originally meant, and in what language? Every name has some etymological origin. Another is simply because I think it evokes a beautiful mental image, of glittering, precious sand in a likely beach-based place, while Goznor could be - and was! - applied to settlements with drastically different aesthetics and feelings. In the Neverwinter Nights module, it was a built-up city, then it became a cosy little village, and the name didn't lose any meaning or effect when used for both because it never had that to lose in the first place. The name Gemsand wouldn't have made sense for either of those.
Regarding the character names, the original ones describe what they are, but the new ones describe who they are. The former are more like "Cuthbert the Knight" or "Princess Tanya", while the latter are more like "Cuthbert the Mad" or "Wise Tanya". Again, see my other comment for why I chose 'Honeyblood' specifically.
I love language, especially its potential to create complex imagery. I used the metaphor of a seed growing a tree of connotations in one of my other comments. I like playing around with layered meanings so much that I struggle to understand the resistance to it. To me, it's absolutely beautiful and enthralling.
If you think that 'Aeropolis' is an amazing name but 'Heropolis' is trite and juvenile or whatever, I'd invite you to have a look at your own mind to see why that might be. I suspect familiarity is an enormous part of it.
I actually completely agree with what you're saying about your method for naming places - practical meaning. I do want to note that I made no mention of places like Slumberwood, Dreamcave, Lifewood, in a negative context, but since those are all more or less from the original series, I'll add a few more from your map: Wyrmourn, Sternham, Rift, Cloud-Clad Castle. All these places sound like something someone "named" for a practical purpose, or in the case of the castle, maybe named as such by a royal trying to make his or her castle seem special. Now, due to your explanation of Gemsand, I understand it's origin and don't mind it nearly as much. These would be good tidbits for the encyclopedia section, I'd love to know why Wyrmourn, Sternham etc. are named as such.
Which I guess brings me to the places which I probably had the biggest complaints about: Lake Lacrimosa, Heropolis, and the continent/landmass names. I think this is where my initial complaint about "meaning" came from. These complaints don't come from a lack of explanation like Gemsand, as you have explained why they are named that. The thing with Lake Lacrimosa is that you've stated this world uses English (or seem to have Germanic/Old English roots like Sternham or Wyrmourn), so a sudden Latin word in the mix feels way off. "Lake Lachrymose" might be more consistent with the existing terminology, or even something as mundane as "Lake Tear."
For Heropolis... I will say I never thought or said Aeropolis was an amazing name, but it did make "sense." It's a city around the air temple - boom, Aeropolis. I can totally see someone calling it that, obvious as it is, so it checks off the "practical naming" naming box. Upon further consideration, Heropolis does this as well! It's the capital city of the courageous "Bold" race, so I imagine they may have named their city that completely on purpose. That said, I now put it on a similar ground to Aeropolis, as a sensible name in-context, but a bit cringeworthy just as a word - which is not necessarily a problem, because that can totally work in-universe! Only other thing about Heropolis is it has a random Greek root which I'll just mention for consistency with my complaint about Lacrimosa, and that it shares a name with the mobile game "Legends of Heropolis," which is about, you guessed it, heroes. I'll keep it short for the continent names - Numina has the same language inconsistency which come off strangely, and some other comments have mentioned that Godsmind and Godsbod are a bit on-the-nose, which is a sentiment I agree with. But again, could easily be justified in-universe, as long as you're doing it on purpose. The map looking like a head and body (although I think it looks like a head and a uterus and ovaries) is really quite brilliant, and someone could theoretically go "aha! A head and body, the size of a god! Let me name them as such!" Not sure how they would get the birds-eye view to find out, but hey, it's fantasy.
As for character names, at this point I've read the words "Mardek Honeyblood" enough times that I might just be getting Stockholm syndrome about it. Your explanation certainly helped, I least get *why* you want to call him that. You may have noticed I'm not mentioning the other names - I'm not sure if it's because I think they're better (Elwyen's is basically the same as her old one anyway) or I just care less because they aren't Mardek. I still think it's kind of a weird name for phonetic reasons alone, but I'll just get over it. Or not. Who knows.
I guess to sum up, I have reconsidered and your names are totally fine because names aren't all "cool" in real life anyway, so there's no reason they should all be "cool" in this world. After all, there's a town called "Burnt Corn, Alabama" and people name their kids plenty of things worse than "Honeyblood." While I know the existing world of Mardek probably far too well, you know this world you're creating better than I do, and I should probably trust you a bit more to make the right choices in regards to it.